6:06 AM

who knew that Christians were in to what I like to call "The Good Stuff"?    

7:20 AM

I've often thought mountain climbing was kinda selfish.    

1:26 PM

Classy way to offer up a sincere fucking apology. It's your blog and you can say whatever you want here, but not everyone is a closet homosexual deviant, or a child molester or into BDSM, but it IS entertaining to continue to hold prejudices that we can all laugh at. If Andrew Dice Clay can do it, why not you?    

1:46 PM

I said "some" of them.

That's a start.    

2:34 PM

BTW

Dilf - it was not meant as a sincere apology. "Fucking" or otherwise. It was meant to set up the joke in the link.

But now that you have me going, according to a recent Newsweek poll, 9 in 10 Americans profess to a belief in God, with 82% of these folks identifying themselves as Christians.

Dilf, I'd be happy to spend time pointing out foolish practices of non-believers. But avowed atheists represent less than 3% of the population. Not a lot to go with there.

As far as linking to the Christian S&M site, I've never implied that the majority of Christians are pervs. I don't believe that it's true. Scratch that. I'm married to one. I know it's not true. God knows I've tried.    

2:36 PM

The source for the stats listed above.    

3:00 PM

Sorry if I was curt. There has been a trend of religion bashing at Easter (which is a peaceful and reflective time,) both here, again here and elsewhere. I shouldn't have chastised you for your apology, turns out there wasn't really an apology there in the first place.

I guess I'm mostly pissed because some of your friends and your own family are practicing Christians and this has not seemed to sway your general opinion. So what does that say about your opinion of us and our beliefs? Have you found us to be pushy and smug about our beliefs? Do we make fun of your choice? I'm only standing up now because, quite frankly, I've had enough.    

4:27 PM

Dilf - my lack of religion doesn't come from a lack of knowledge or lack of understanding. I spent years in the church(es). My lack of religion comes from the lack of belief. Period.

If you think that I should fake it, and pretend to believe in things I don't because you, my family or my friends believe it, I'm sorry.

But I don't. That's not faith. It might be organized religion, but it's not faith.

I don't remember ever bringing this stuff up in polite company. And you've known me for years. You know how I conduct myself, personally and professionally.

I don't make a point of confronting people on their faith (or lack thereof).

And this is my place. If you disagree with what I write -- If you're offended by what I write -- there's plenty of other things to read.

But if you think that what I write about religion is a veiled insult directed at you or your family, you're mistaken.

And if you think it's a velied insult directed at Christian members of my own household, then you've gone well past offending me.    

5:42 PM

1.) I can understand that
2.) You absolutely should not fake it.
3.) You never have brought this stuff up in polite company.
4.) Indeed, you don't make a point of confronting people on their faith.
5.) I am a regular reader here. I disagree strongly and used this forum, however flawed, to voice that view. If I don't like it I can go take a flying leap.

I'm gonna punt at this point. I know that's a chickenshit way out, but without inflection, emotion or direct conversation, this has quickly degenerated into a flame war that I cannot see a good resolution to. Either way one of us loses and you're my friend.    

6:16 PM

Good.

'Cause we were one comment away from a mandatory dance off.    

8:37 PM

If it's ala Starsky & Hutch, I'll retract my earlier statement.    

9:51 PM

I think Dilf is charging forward on his steed because you made me cry on Sunday.

I respect you and your opinion very much, and it stings when you say Christians shouldn't have the right to pay to publish their events. That says not just that you believe differently, but that you believe Christianity to be so odious that the public should be protected against it.

Above and beyond the existence or non-existence of God, the philosophy of Christianity is something I endeavor to follow. When it is mocked, it's like my life's purpose is mocked. And when that mocking comes from a dear and close friends, it hurts that much more.    

10:33 PM

Ubie - I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I never said that Christians (or anybody else) shouldn't have the ability to pay to advertise their events. What I was pointing out (both in that post and in the other one that Dilf pointed to earlier) was this:

This is a political correctness issue that I don't think people are sensitized about.

When we sing "God Bless America", we're singing of the Judeo-Christian God. We're definitely not singing praises to Allah.

When there's a casual assumption that everyone is a Christian, then there's a marginalizing effect on non-Christians.

In a similar vein, that same paper had an article on Monday about a family moving in to a home built by "Habitat for Humanity". The headline was "Prayers Answered."

Yeah. I know. The phrase "answered prayers" has become such a common turn of phrase that it equates to "what they hoped would happen did".

Far be it for me to claim Minority status. But in this case, there is a social ostracism in being an atheist.

There are a number of opinions you have that I don't agree with. But I don't have any reason to think that the opinions are anything but well-informed and heartfelt. If I don't agree with you, I generally just keep my mouth shut, and stay out of the comment section.

Unless you mess with Hall and/or Oates. I'll defend them to the death.

I'm sorry if you took my comments as an attack on you and yours. It was more intended to be a defense of me and -- well I guess just me.

And that painting was awful.    

10:34 PM

But I got over it.    

1:54 PM

Besides, I get it. You feel uneasy, like people are trying to brainwash you or subtly coerce you into believing something.

I understand that; as not the "correct flavor" of Christian, I feel it alot, too.

But at least "paid advertisement" tips you off to its intent. I feel that way about diamonds -- who the hell decided that a rock was worth bazillions just because it's clear? And your husband doesn't love you unless he buys you one? Or your wife will judge you based on the size offered to her? And wars are fought over them? And people enslaved?

Stupid diamonds.    

11:06 PM

"I guess I'm mostly pissed because some of your friends and your own family are practicing Christians and this has not seemed to sway your general opinion.So what does that say about your opinion of us and our beliefs?"

If you went away and lived with a Hindu family for say, 6 months, and if your living with them didn't convert you, does that mean that you you're insulting them and their beliefs? Might it mean, possibly, that you are comfortable in your own, and feel secure in them to the point where you can be immersed in another culture and not have your own outlook swayed?

"Have you found us to be pushy and smug about our beliefs?"

Yes. Not all, but most. And the more evangelical, the more pushy and smug.

"Do we make fun of your choice?"

Yes. As an atheist I'm talked down to in a patronising and condescending manner.

"I'm only standing up now because, quite frankly, I've had enough."

As the blog owner said, don't read on then. That's what Christians say when we complain about church posters, leaflets and flyers everywhere: if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

There are plenty of Christian websites out there. I for one enjoy reading one with a different point of view.    

12:37 PM

Thanks, anonymous. The calendar is only at April and my search for "Uninformed, Uninvited Interloper of the Year" can be put to rest.    

1:03 PM

Todd - All are welcome here. If you have a point you'd like to make in the discussion, I'd be happy to hear it. But I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't insult my guests.

I don't think the anonymous poster was trying to insult Dilf directly. And Dilf knows I have a lot of love for the Uber clan.

But if one makes an argument, one has to be prepared to be argued back.

And I think anonymous played fair.

(But a side note to anonymous - people give you a lot more credence if you have a blog of your own. That way they know there's a forum where you speak for yourself.)    

2:02 PM

Maybe I misunderstood, but when Dilf asked "Have you found us to be pushy and smug about our beliefs?" I thought he was asking about your opinions of Christians who are close to you, not all Christians in general. However, when anonymous responded, he WAS talking about his experiences with Christians in general. Therefore, I thought his comment, while certainly "fair", was out of context.

I guess I was wrong.    

4:17 PM

This comment has been removed by the author.    

4:18 PM

Todd - the line "Have you found us to be pushy and smug about our beliefs?" pretty much suggested that I was guilty of the same. I pointed out to my friend, Dilf, that he was well aware that this was not a topic I dwell on in public. Instead, he was reading the equivalent of my journal. And he was welcome to not read it if he didn't like it.

I didn't respond, point-by-point, to Dilf's comment. It was clear that he was plenty angry. And I didn't think I was going to make any strides towards understanding with yet another rebuttal. That's why opted for a plain spoken defense.

I hurt Ubie's feelings, and pissed off Dilf. We've established that, settled it, and moved on.    

7:42 PM

People,people! Why are we wasting all this time arguing when we could be talking about The Wire?    

7:34 PM

Can I just say one thing more? I'm glad I raised the issues I did, and I like reading viewpoints different from my own. How else will I learn or grow? And while I was hurt by what I THOUGHT Sysm was saying, but through discussion I gained a greater understanding of his point of view. If I stopped reading, or avoided topics that made me uncomfotable, how would I ever accomplish that?

In that way, I disagree with "anonymous" quite a bit. I think we all SHOULD read and think about what other people say, ESPECIALLY those people who think differently than us, and sometimes dissension leads to clarity, even if the initial foray into it is uncomfortable.    

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